These former evangelical pastors want you to find your pleasure
Interview by Jennifer Cooper
Photo courtesy of 3 Questions with Kat & Val
“Our old worldview vilified pleasure. Reclaiming it and boldly declaring we are worthy of it as a way of life is profoundly healing.”
I once took a trip to the desert to try to pitch a travel series I was developing. Instead of getting my series made, I found myself at one of the most exclusive resorts in Palm Springs crying alongside a woman I’d just met.
Life is funny that way.
The woman was Valerie DiLuggo, a therapist specializing in relationships. She’s used to big emotions, especially talking about them. And yes, I was feeling all kinds of emotions that day. In fact, it was her “I cry at work” shirt that prompted me over to her.
Now she’s taking her expertise to your ears alongside her friend, artist Kathryn Max in their new podcast 3 Questions with Kat & Val. Their podcast is a blend of deep friendship, joy, and conversations about things that affect so many of us—late ADHD diagnoses, gender, love, pleasure, big life transitions. It’s thoughtful, engaging, and a hilariously good time!
There are a lot of podcasts out there, but rarely do I run across one that instantly makes me want to be best friends with the hosts. This one did. It’s pure delight! So, I recently spoke with them about their podcast to learn more.
First off, Kat, you’re an artist and Val, you’ve got a new business. Why add a podcast to your work list?
Kat: As an artist active in the body liberation movement, I have been invited as a guest on many podcasts. It’s a fantastic medium to share ideas and explore meaningful conversations. I’ve wanted to do one for a few years now, but I also knew I needed to work with someone whose skill set would balance out my own. One day last fall, I literally woke up with a complete idea of what this podcast could be like with Val and me co-hosting. I was obnoxiously excited about it. I’m so happy she was up for it. It has been so much fucking fun. Even the hard work part has been fun. Val is the freakin’ best!
Val: Kat really did text me and sweetly tried to contain her excitement without pushing me too hard. LOL! What’s so funny is that I had already been toying with the idea of starting a podcast to use as a marketing tool for my new business. So when she asked me, I felt like I should say yes and follow the open doors. In all honesty, though, I had imagined a more buttoned up educational podcast centered on just relationships. So for me to say yes to this wild, unfiltered, more personal podcast was a bit of a departure. But it also felt good for it to point back to my business (have you heard our cute commercials?), yet still occupy this messy fun space.
What do you hope listeners get out of 3 Questions with Kat & Val?
Kat: First of all, I want our listeners to laugh and feel like they are sitting at the table with us shooting the shit and meandering into deep waters. I want folks to engage in the nuance of challenging discussions with us and feel encouraged and more hopeful by the end. I want everyone to feel like they could be our best friends if they lived near us.
Val: I also want listeners to laugh…a lot! Big belly laughs in their cars or in a quiet coffee shop (guilty!!). Laughter is so good for us and if there was a blood test for it—I think many would be deficient. Let’s spread joy!! And also, I love the term ‘edutainment’ because who doesn’t want to learn something while they are being entertained? We learn in stories. We connect in stories. Vulnerability begets vulnerability. I think we’ve also talked about wanting to somehow model a deep meaningful friendship and how to engage your friends into those deeper waters.
“Imagine if we all had more pleasure in our lives how things would change? Imagine if instead of asking people, “What do you do?” we asked them, “What are you doing that is bringing you pleasure?””
You’re both super focused on pleasure which I find fascinating considering your evangelical backgrounds. Perhaps it’s my bias, but when I hear the word evangelical, pleasure isn’t the first word that comes to mind.
Kat: Learning how to center pleasure as a person living within several marginalized identities felt radical at first. But it has also been incredibly empowering. It makes living in a state of self-compassion accessible. You are right, our old worldview vilified pleasure. Reclaiming it and boldly declaring we are worthy of it as a way of life is profoundly healing.
Val: I love that you made that connection to our past! Yes, it’s quite a juxtaposition. We were taught that our desires were sinful and our bodies could not be trusted. What a set up that was! Self-knowledge starts in the body! Pleasure feels vital now. Including it as one of our core questions was deliberate. Imagine if we all had more pleasure in our lives how things would change? Imagine if instead of asking people, “What do you do?” we asked them, “What are you doing that is bringing you pleasure?”
What’s a question you wished you got asked more?
Kat: I would like it if more folks asked me about spiritual awakening. It’s a bit niche, but as a former pastor and a deeply spiritually curious person, I love discussing how my relationship to my body was a path to profound healing and awakening. These ideas sound lofty and can seem inaccessible but my experiences started with something as simple as wanting to stop hating the body I live my life in. So much beauty has shown up in my life because of the choice to unlearn decades of bias.
Val: I wish more people would ask “Val, why are you so freakin’ funny!? When are you starting your world comedy tour.”
You can find 3 Questions with Kat & Val on Apple podcasts, Spotify, and Google. And you can follow them on instagram at katandvalpodcast.